On 9/2/2005 8:00 AM, xxxxx wrote:
> Judas was indeed a very common Jewish name, but when Jewish writers of the first century spoke symbolically of the people of Israel, they used other kinds of images, like a lion (representing the tribe of Judah) or an eagle, or a vineyard... They just didn't write symbolically using real guys to represent larger bodies of people. Maybe the New Testament is the lone exception to the rule - but every indication is that a normal reading of these writings issues in Judas being a real person. He certainly has a symbolic value, just as Peter does, or Mary - and Judas's symbolic value isn't his Jewishness. After all, in the story he is pressed by - whom? the Jews! to hand Jesus over to them! Judas represents the way all of us (similar to Peter here, right) are capable of handing Jesus over, turning our back on the one who came to save us. The only meaningful difference between Peter and Judas is this: they both feel immense remorse after their denials and betrayals. But Peter repents, determines to do better. Judas is so grief-stricken he kills himself. Is Judas forgiven? Of course, we don't know these things. For Dante, Judas is consigned to the most remote pit of Hell. For many theologians, Judas may well be forgiven. Jesus washed his feet the night of his death - and Judas could well be among those who "knew not what they did." Judas, in a way, did what he had been reared to do religiously, and we could make the case that, given his background, he did the best thing possible. Jesus did not fit anybody's category for what a Messiah should look like, and in fact he offended most people's categories for what even a decent Jew should look like. Personally, I very much like the notion of Judas being forgiven - but that ties in to a whole different but related set of questions about who's saved, who isn't, why, etc.
> ________________________________
> Sent: Fri 9/2/2005 4:05 AM
> To: xxxxx
> Subject: forgiveness of Judas
Hi
> Sunday you mentioned the evil people who killed Jesus. You also mentioned
> forgiveness by Joseph.
> It reminded me of a question that bothers me and I ask you now. Do you think
> Jesus forgave Judas?
>
> A year or so ago when he was at Dilworth I met Bishop Spong and asked him, and
> he said he did not think there was a Judas - that "Judas" represented the Jewish
> people. I asked one of our visiting ministers who did a spiritual retreat on
> forgiveness, and they said they thought Judas would have been covered in the
> "forgive them for they know not what they do." I feel that elsewhere Jesus made
> it clear that Judas would have been better off not to have been born and that
> does not seem to me to be forgiveness. The visiting minister acknowledged the
> point but offered nothing more.
> Don 8/28/05
