July 2013 Classes

July 2013 Classes
Let me know if any need removal or editing, etc. Click below for Media of classes this month.
Audio    Audio Test (Messiah) Blog  Pictures + Videos 20 min less Videos 20 min more 
Blog 2013: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

I will contribute $25 to class members or a charity if you email me you saw this message. 
Linda, Reatha, Bill Spier, and the Lumadues have earned the $$$ so far.
I am behind with write-ups since December  after my son's funeral; give me time and I will catch up.Links work. 
Let me know if anything needs removal or editing, etc
Blog  Pictures and short videos Full Videos on YouTube Audios  Messiah (test)

                                

 Click for Current Birthdays and Addresses- 

 July 28, 2013 Lou, More Niebuhr Reatha opened class with prayer attributed to R.Niebuhr and later Lou lead a lesson on him and discussed the prayer. Mary Katerine's successes in Cleveland Ohio Senior games were related as she placed in the top ten in about a half dozen categories. Anita did well too. MK reported we have in the treasury  and mentioned she is going to Seattle for a tour of the North west Pacific National Parks over the next two weeks. 23 Signups for the next dinner at Charlotte Cafe. Durward gave dates of last Sunday October for  bbq upstairs and 2nd Sunday in December for Breakfast.   Harriette did a beautiful recital in Aspen and drove 3,600 round trip while Sydnor slept. Parick and Jimmy have organ concert tonight. Will have Hymn sing next Sunday. Mentioned Miriam might be visiting us next week. Birthday card  sent to Cal  and get well to Chick who had 5 stints last week; hip operation 9/11. Don R told of the commotion brought about by changing seating at the 8 30 service.Mentioned Linda was at Lake Junaluska at a meeting.Lou shared the book by  R Niebuhr with us concentrating on the epilogue written after he had several stokes which slowed him down.

July 21, 2013 Ellen on Worship  Reatha opened class with a reading about how a small drop of water brings life. She reported the L..... is in Jubliee Hall this week, bring food contributions.. Next Sunday afternoon an Organ recital and then the next the Hymn sing with hot dogs.  From Reatha before class: Dear Ownbey Family, 1.  Our Curriculum Committee will meet tomorrow, Tue Jy 16th, at 7:30pm in our classroom (110).  All are welcome, or you can contact me or DON HAMMER -- -- with any ideas for upcoming lessons.2.  Speaking of upcoming lessons...This Sunday, Jy 21st, we are happy to have ELLEN ROBISON lead us in discussing her role as Minister of Worship and the Arts.3.  And speaking of ministers...You've read in recent editions of THE CORNERSTONE about the new directions our fomer ministers KEVIN WRIGHT and STEVE JAMES are taking.  But had you heard that JOE HAMBY, who'd been working at the Cokesbury store on Tyvola (which closed in April), is now working at The Men's Shelter uptown?  And BERNARD is currently in Asbury (out at Aldersgate).  At first, my source had told me that he'd suffered a mild stroke, but it turns out that it's Bell's Palsy.  While he's at Asbury, CAROL (who suffers from Alzheimer's) is staying w/their daughter in Wilmington (i think it is).4.  Our July birthdays...Th 11th - Fred  Th 18th - Ralph Fri 19th - Ace  Tue 23d - Cal  (who presented a sprited lesson yest'y, involving lots of discussion... which will prob lead to a follow-up lesson -- thx, Cal)   More H&H to come... not sure just when that will be!  [going up to Amanda's this aft'n to help her clean and prep for the soon-to-arrive baby.
July 14, 2013 Cal  using the Jim Wallis book ON GOD'S SIDE, and his lesson is entitled "The Good Samaritan Goes Global." Reatha started class with readings of prayers and comments of Nelsom Mandela. Also the summer intern spoke of last night's verdict  as "unbearable words."  She mentioned  that Marion Hymes might come to class as she is looking for a Sunday School home. Billy Tobias had a son last week, and Dottie is the mother. Had a good dinner. Mentioned the effort last week to fill the Emergency Bags (see last week's notes). Harriette and Sydnor are in Gastonia for son's first  day with his new church. They will be driving to Aspen soon.   . Anne mentioned Fred appreciated the birthaday card signed by  many members of the class. Wilma's daughter is having a hip replacement . William Webb spent some time in hospital last week and is back at Summit now. Have curreculum meeting Tuesday night. Wednesday morning Amanda is to have her new baby.  James likes RSV over using NRST, by the way. Steven Polis age 63 had a stoke recently, he was commissioned to do two musical pieces for us in recent years.
Reatha's email about lesson: Dear Ownbey Family, Tomorrow's lesson will be led by CAL.  He's using the Jim Wallis book ON GOD'S SIDE, and his lesson is entitled "The Good Samaritan Goes Global."  I'll send a Health-n-Happiness report in a little bit, including a list of July b'days -- late Happy B'day to FRED SADRI whose BIG day was this past week! Peace, Reatha - Sat - 9pm
July 07, 2013 Jubilee Hall Mission Project  The class met with other classes in Jubilee Hall to help prepare Care Packages and a couple of members went to the Fellowship Class to  hear Sydnor teach a lesson on the three Temples (the original by Salomon, the next by Herod, and the next by the Muslims). I have audit recording of Sydnor's lesson at the usual link as well as some Video. Also audit and video of the class proceedings. One thing I like they do is $1 bragging whereby people can tell things they want to brag about or thank people for a dollar. They also have  a prayer before the offering and a formal report of the Health of the group. They report attendance which was was 22 plus 3 visitors. Sydnor teaches the first Sunday of each month in Fellowship. On last Wednesday night the class met at Charlotte Cafe, next there is 2nd Wednesday in August. Curriculum Committee meets soon.
There was a  reference in the church Corenerstone about our class (and Luther Snyder/Ruth Fisher Class) being some of the folks who helped assemble 164 UMCOR health kits last Sunday?  It was sorta confusing at first... esp. if you were down at the "far end" of tables (as i was) where we were simply sorting the myriad of hotel soaps, shampoos, conditioners, lotions, bath gels, toothpaste... w/the help of very eager youngsters.  [my main job:  reading the "fine print" on those hotel toiletries so the kids would know into which bowl to sort them -- lots of them were written in gold/silver "leaf" making it really hard to decifer (even w/my trifocals...)]The "Hang-in-There!" award for our class goes to ARLYENE   :-)    I don't know how many kits she put together, but she was there till almost the "bitter end." A brief note about the kits.  Each one had:  1 handtowel, 1 washcloth, 1 bath-size soap, 1 toothbrush, 1 metal nail file (or 1 pair nail clippers), 1 (non pocket-size) comb, and 6 (reg-size) Bandaids.  Later i was asking BARBARA about that "funky" number of Bandaids.  Here's THAT scoop:  whenever a shipment reaches its destination, there will be random content checks.  If any kit does not have EXACTLY what it's supp'd to, the entire shipment could be in jeopardy and refused.  The kits we packed will go to Mooresville where EACH ONE will be doublechecked before being sent on.  [the reason we send toothbrushes but no toothpaste is due to shelf-life:  some kits might be stored for years before being needed]

20130703 Bible, Love, and Forgiveness

Bible, Love and Forgiveness

Note: Latest version of this is at http://instructionsbydon.blogspot.com/2013/07/20130721-bible-love-and-forgiveness.html

This is
http://ownbeyss.blogspot.com/2013/07/20130703-bible-love-and-forgiveness.html

Notice: I will give $25.00  to members of the Ownbey Class , and others designated, if they are able to find in the Bible that Jesus or God or any person says or is said to have said "I love you" or "I forgive you" to a person. Comment on the Blog where this memo is and tell me where you found the wording and, if I agree, I will give a check to you or your designated charity. Also same offer if you recite the books of the Bible (in order) from memory for me.
Revised June 33, 2013
Back to Don's Bible Page
Back to Don's Page.

1. Bible Words: -  In our Bible, I wish Jesus or God (or any person!) said to a person  ( or any person said it was said)  "I love you" or "I forgive you."  What a great example it would have been if  Jesus said to Judas "I love you" or "I forgive you."  Christianity is based on these two concepts, and  I am sorry not to see it said in the Bible. I hope I am wrong and you will show me where  these statement are in the Bible. There are a few instances where people tell God (and maybe Jesus) they love them, but I am talking about individuals or even groups of people being told the specific words, "I love you.".  For the complete discussion, you already are here at http://www.donredding.com/iloveforgiveyou.html   or on my computer at   C:\Users\don\Documents\0www\iloveforgiveyou.html  or iloveforgiveyou(originalbefore 20130630).html
   Having said that, there is one instance in the Bible where God is said to have said "I love you.."  Locate that instance and view the other comments below and tell me what you think.
   
   I am not saying that the Bible  suggests that no one in the Bible loves each other, I am just saying no one seemed to think it important to say that to anyone. We are told to tell our children often we love them, and talk shows make a point of neglected children never being told that.  God and Jesus were good to us and that is supposed to prove they love us, but how often have we heard that people shower their children with gifts but don't show them love - or say it.
   
   

Bible Words Search
Words in the Bible - There is a lot of advice in the Bible about loving and forgiving, but few if any quotes that anyone said "I love you (or forgive you)" to a person/anyone else.
• Nowhere in the Bible is it said to a human "I  love you,  "I forgive you"  "thank you,"  "you are welcome (well, one time)", or "I am sorry."
• "I love you" to a human is in the Bible 0 times, (ok maybe one time and another if take the reason for doing something telling a person that)
• "love you" to a human is in the Bible 0 times
• "have loved" to human is in the Bible 3 times
• "I forgive you" is in the Bible 0 times
• "forgive you " to a human is in the Bible 0 times
• "forgive" in the Bible0 times    referring to telling a person they are forgiven, but 67 otherwise
• "Thank you" to a human is in the Bible 0 times
• "you are welcome" is in the Bible 1 time
• "I am sorry" is in the Bible 0 times
• "Please" is in the Bible 112 times
• "Fear" is in the Bible 336 times. In Old Testament  258 times and in new  78
  
• Love in Old Testament  about 440 times and in New Testament  about 158 times
  -  Most directed to God or Jesus, not to humans. If I am wrong, forgive me and please let me know, thanks.
Many people mention that people are told you are forgiven in the Bible, and that Jesus said  something similar with "Father forgive them." Why did he not just say to the soldiers, "I forgive you." that would have been clear, especially if he were God instead of asking the Father to say it and we do not know if the Father forgave them.  In church  Sundays we say, "You are forgiven," and we wonder who is forgiving whom why. The father of the Prodigal son did not say  " I forgive you" to the son and I diont think forgiveness even is mentioned.  I know we can show we love or forgive someone and that is good, I am jsut saying no one was saying it to any human in the Bible. 

Why is this so - that no one in the Bible says "I love (or forgive) you" - when often we are told we are to tell others we love them and we forgive them. Perhaps that is the American way or some other code of ethics. (The term "have loved" is found 3 times, but not a present tense.) Maybe it is assumed that is what the Bible means for us to do and that is good, but the facts remain that there are not clear examples in the Bible. I am not saying we should not tell others we love them or forgive them or that we should not love or forgive them. I am saying the  Bible is not  an example of those feelings being expressed in words directly to any human being.
Surely in the thousands of years covered by the Bible someone would  say these words and they would be significant enough to be quoted. Seems to me to be an important point as so many references to God and Jesus is about love and forgiveness.
Think of the power of Jesus forgiving Judas - what a concrete example of loving and forgiving an enemy that would be. What did Jesus do - he told Judas he would  have been better off not to be born. That probably is true, but it can be said  about a lot of us. Or if Jesus on the cross had forgiven  instead of asking God to forgive. What powerful examples they would be. It is always easier to advise or ask  someone to love and forgive than to say it or do it oneself.

I have asked many  people why they think "I love you (or I forgive you)" to a human is not in the Bible and here are some responses:

1. One minister said  "back then" folks were not as touchy feely as we are now and such feelings were expressed  in action (ie, Jesus on the cross); ok, I accept that  as a good way to reconcile the difference but it still does not satisfy my questions. 
   
2. Same person said "hard to say, really.  For instance, in the Old Testament Jonathan tells David he loves him - and scholars think what that means is that he was pledging his total loyalty to him, expressing his commitment to die for him on the battlefield if need be.  So when Jesus asks Peter about love, he uses this odd word "agape," which means a commitment to help those nobody else will help.  So is Jesus thinking of himself as somebody nobody else will help? or is he really asking Peter about feeding his sheep, caring for his people, especially those nobody else would care for?    and on forgiveness, I can't think of any more radical forgiveness than Jesus on the cross, asking God's forgiveness for the soldiers who just executed him - and rather brutally"
   
3. One famous minister said that there are many such references to this being said in the Bible but then did not provide examples. 
4. Another referred to Jesus on the cross when Jesus asked God to do the forgiving.Not sure God forgave them.
5. A famous religious writer responded when I asked why did he think Jesus did not forgive Judas by saying there was never a Judas; it was just a reference to the Jewish people.
6. Each Sunday we say that Jesus died for us, and that  "that proves God's love to us." Don't understand how that proves it, but of course it does not say they love us specifically.
   
7. Another well known author said (I added the reading to the scripture references he gave plus my comment, what do you think?)
   "Well there are so many references I hardly know where to begin.  I guess start with
   
1. John 3.16--- God loves the world.
   
1.  16" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,^[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (God did not say the words to anyone here.)
   
2. Secondly look at the Lord's prayer-- we ask God to forgive us as we forgive others. (But God does not say he forgives us.)
   
3.  Thirdly, there is Jesus' teaching on forgiveness in Mt. 18.21-25. 
   
1.  21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often^(A) will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?^(B) As many as seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.^{[a]  (again no one is told they are forgiven.)}
   
4. Then of course there is the famous woman caught in adultery story Jn. 7.53-8.11.
   

1. John 8
    1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2^(A) Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and^(B) he sat down and taught them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5Now^(C) in the Law Moses commanded us^(D) to stone such women. So what do you say?" 6This they said^(E) to test him,^(F) that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, ^(G) "Let him who is without sin among you^(H) be the first to throw a stone at her." 8And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, ^(I) "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on^(J) sin no more." ( Jesus did not say he forgave her.)

5. Rom. 5.5 is an especially good example--- God poured his love into our hearts.
   

1. Romans 5:5 (English Standard Version)

   5  and^(A) hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love^(B) has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.(
   
6. 1 John 4.16-21 is also a good one.
1. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.   God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20  If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
   
8. A "well know TV  preacher  wrote a long letter saying: "Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and questions with xxxxx. It is a privilege to correspond with you. With regard to your question, “Why do you think neither God nor Jesus said ‘I love  you’ or ‘I forgive you’ to a person?” we would point to verses such as Matthew 9:2; Mark 2:5, 10:21, Luke 5:20i, 7:48; John 11:5, 36; 13:1, 23, 34, 15:9, 12; 17:23 and 21:25, where Jesus did tell people they were loved or forgiven. We believe the most comprehensive way to address your question is by sending relevant material by xxxx. Please accept the resource listed on the enclosed sheet as a gift from the ministry. We hope that it will provide beneficial insight   . .
   We pray that the ministry of xxxx will serve you as a source of encouragement and spiritual growth in your walk of faith. May the very best of Gods blessings be yours. Prayerfully yours,(Below are the references:)
1. Matthew 9:2;  
• 2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven." (By whom?)
2. Mark 2:5, 10:21,
• 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." (By whom?)
• 21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
3. Luke 5:20i, 7:48;
• 20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." (By whom?)
• 48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
4. John 11:5, 36; 13:1, 23, 34, 15:9, 12; 17:23 and 21:25
• 5 Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
• 36 Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"
•  1 It was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love  
• 23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him.
•  34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
•  9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love."
• 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
•  23 "I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
• 25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
   
9. Here is a reference I have found: 
   Isaiah 43:4 ^: Since you are precious and honored in my sight,    and because I love you,I will give people in exchange for you,    nations in exchange for your life.
   
10. A friend found the following which comes closer than the famous folks above, I had not thought of using "have" before in the search:
• Love:
  John 15:12 - My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
  John 15:9 -  As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
  Ephesians 3:19 - and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
  Revelation 3:19 - Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
• Forgive:
  Colossians 3:13 - Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
  Luke 5:20 - When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."
  John 8:11 - "No one, sir," she said.   "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
11.          Here are some close ones using the past tense - what do you think:
• Jeremiah 31:3 - The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. Jeremiah 31:2-4 (in Context) Jeremiah 31 (Whole Chapter)
• Malachi 1:2 - [ Jacob Loved, Esau Hated ] "I have loved you," says the LORD. "But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, Malachi 1:1-3 (in Context) Malachi 1 (Whole Chapter)
• John 13:34 -"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.John 13:33-35 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)
• John 15:12 - My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. John 15:11-13 (in Context) John 15 (Whole Chapter)
• Revelation 3:9 - I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Revelation 3:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter) :